tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post1602227783616276200..comments2023-05-10T08:55:47.701-07:00Comments on Richard Carrier Blogs: Book UpdatesRichard Carrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-70931824497515955572011-02-02T21:44:29.894-08:002011-02-02T21:44:29.894-08:00Awww... **group anti-jesus hug** heheAwww... **group anti-jesus hug** heheBenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14479224236264150172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-34894175994333429992011-02-02T16:07:24.519-08:002011-02-02T16:07:24.519-08:00Yes, I just misunderstood where you were going wit...Yes, I just misunderstood where you were going with your argument, because I was reading it in this context. But sounds like we've gotten all that sorted now. I apologize for my part in the confusion.Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-40512842877466390992011-01-28T20:31:49.668-08:002011-01-28T20:31:49.668-08:00I think you are right. I brought something in that...I think you are right. I brought something in that I had wondered about but was really irrelevant to your purposes on this blog. I think the reason was I saw a chance to get someone of your stature to even comment on this particular issue, as I had not been able to get anyone else interested.<br /><br />I felt a little put down by your dissection of my argument but I can understand that, it was Raymond Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03908764553466201427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-90030200345700424212011-01-28T15:49:37.423-08:002011-01-28T15:49:37.423-08:00Raymond Briggs said... We must therefore either as...<b>Raymond Briggs said...</b> <i>We must therefore either assume that Acts is false and Paul was not there or the things that we are told happened that week (in the Gospels) never happened, not that therefore Jesus never existed.</i><br /><br />Ah. Then you posted in the wrong forum. This is a thread about a book questioning the historicity of Jesus. Hence I assumed you were participating in thisRichard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-52461117554189006942011-01-23T20:21:38.378-08:002011-01-23T20:21:38.378-08:00I never claimed that I was arguing against the his...I never claimed that I was arguing against the historicity of Jesus. Even if I thought he was not an historical person. I will leave that argument to Doherty and Wells both of whom I have read and who know much more about it than I. My argument was very simple. I was just arguing that if Paul was in Jerusalem during "holy" week, it is inconceivable that he would not have told us of the Raymond Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03908764553466201427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-48737200701588829372011-01-22T17:15:18.659-08:002011-01-22T17:15:18.659-08:00Raymond Briggs said... I should have made it more ...<b>Raymond Briggs said...</b> <i>I should have made it more clear that I was posing a sort of gedanken approach where IF we assume the New Testament (including Acts) is the inerrant word of God...</i><br /><br />Apart from the fact that such a mode of argument is inherently self-contradictory (if the Bible is the Inerrant Word of God then the probability Jesus existed historically is 100%, so youRichard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-60834180043572760442011-01-22T17:01:18.370-08:002011-01-22T17:01:18.370-08:00I agree that what Paul says often contradicts what...I agree that what Paul says often contradicts what Acts says about him. But then I also think the whole bible is in general unreliable. I should have made it more clear that I was posing a sort of gedanken approach where IF we assume the New Testament (including Acts) is the inerrant word of God, it is essentially a given that Paul would have been in Jerusalem during "holy" week. This Raymond Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03908764553466201427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-76356042762961370012011-01-22T10:29:20.116-08:002011-01-22T10:29:20.116-08:00Raymond Briggs said... I think the following quote...<b>Raymond Briggs said...</b> <i>I think the following quote from Acts 22 shows that Paul probably lived in Jerusalem. "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated strictly according to our ancestral law, being zealous for God, just as all of you are today.</i><br /><br />First, as I said, Acts lies about Paul (Paul himself refutes theRichard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-77430358506552701932011-01-14T21:24:24.470-08:002011-01-14T21:24:24.470-08:00I think the following quote from Acts 22 shows tha...I think the following quote from Acts 22 shows that Paul probably lived in Jerusalem.<br />"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated strictly according to our ancestral law, being zealous for God, just as all of you are today. I persecuted this Way up to the point of death by binding both men and women and putting them in prison, asRaymond Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03908764553466201427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-46956257083710628812011-01-14T15:37:08.743-08:002011-01-14T15:37:08.743-08:00Raymond Briggs said... My problem is why does Paul...<b>Raymond Briggs said...</b><i> My problem is why does Paul never say he met or even saw Jesus, yet (if the NT is correct), Paul must have been living in Jerusalem on the last week of Jesus' life. How could he have missed Jesus triumphant entry, the clearing of the temple, the trial and crucifixion? It seems to me that because he apparently never experienced these things they probably never Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-51652232902910604472011-01-07T20:55:14.958-08:002011-01-07T20:55:14.958-08:00My problem is why does Paul never say he met or ev...My problem is why does Paul never say he met or even saw Jesus, yet (if the NT is correct), Paul must have been living in Jerusalem on the last week of Jesus' life. How could he have missed Jesus triumphant entry, the clearing of the temple, the trial and crucifixion? It seems to me that because he apparently never experienced these things they probably never happened.Raymond Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03908764553466201427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-14103927077373429922010-12-29T16:09:16.739-08:002010-12-29T16:09:16.739-08:00Donors already get advance looks at PDF drafts. I&...Donors already get advance looks at PDF drafts. I'm not taking new donors, though.<br /><br />The final draft will have undergone peer review and thus will exhibit professional revisions (so it will be of greater value); and that I will be in contract with my publisher not to disseminate separately from their own electronic distribution channel.<br /><br />As to self-publishing, I won't Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-86060157656863804282010-11-29T03:49:30.792-08:002010-11-29T03:49:30.792-08:00I for one would be happy to pay for a pdf of the m...I for one would be happy to pay for a pdf of the manuscript if it was made available before publication.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05047252601758282636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-11089634795416564552010-11-20T00:45:43.951-08:002010-11-20T00:45:43.951-08:00Thanks for the update Richard. Have you thought of...Thanks for the update Richard. Have you thought of publishing the books yourself via Lulu? I'm guessing this won't carry much weight in academia though.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05047252601758282636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-55428676011468547462010-11-17T08:23:16.579-08:002010-11-17T08:23:16.579-08:00"Any updates on when the book will be release...<i>"Any updates on when the book will be released?"</i><br /><br />Volume 1 is still being shopped around. I have determined that several publishers have no slots for it (academic presses have limited tracks to assign books to and select which books even to look at based on their plans for subjects to cover and a predetermined list of priorities, so it's hard even to get them to Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-61725783135718199642010-11-11T06:58:50.998-08:002010-11-11T06:58:50.998-08:00Dear Richard,
Congrats!
Indeed, a great issue, a...Dear Richard,<br /><br />Congrats!<br /><br />Indeed, a great issue, and one in need of a rigorous treatment. I can only recall R. G. Cavin's dissertation approaching the use of Bayes' Theorem in the given realm positively. I haven't seen your book, but I like the conclusion already: Bayes' Theorem can be applied to history. <br /><br />I doubt we will agree when it comes to Vlastimil Vohánkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13223710301816466736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-1740772383771740372010-09-19T11:17:01.296-07:002010-09-19T11:17:01.296-07:00Any updates on when the book will be released?Any updates on when the book will be released?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05047252601758282636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-86687484560688532432010-08-23T19:23:57.330-07:002010-08-23T19:23:57.330-07:00Bill: Regarding J.P. Holding: it's not even wo...<b>Bill:</b> Regarding J.P. Holding: it's not even worth my time reading what he says anymore. I mean a high school freshman could be trained to notice that his argument constitutes the fallacy of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading" rel="nofollow">special pleading</a>. I already dispatch that argument in NIF (of course you won't know that from Holding; you have to Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-4961736819396384092010-08-07T05:28:01.668-07:002010-08-07T05:28:01.668-07:00(JPH)...
So again, in sum, it is a mistake to rea...(JPH)...<br /><br />So again, in sum, it is a mistake to read these high-context documents as though they are presenting every detail. Rather, the accounts would be tailored to address particular questions that might be raised about Christianity; for Acts this is especially the case if Luke is presenting a sort of legal brief in defense of Paul.<br />or that one guy who was traveling through the Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-78188825485538391532010-08-07T05:26:56.948-07:002010-08-07T05:26:56.948-07:00(JPH)...
...In addition to the notes above, these ...(JPH)...<br />...In addition to the notes above, these points: Carrier is clearly either withholding, or ignorant of, information from Witherington. As that worthy notes, Luke's "many other words" (v. 40) reference is a "technical rhetorical device meant to convey the idea that the speaker had much more to say." [139n] (Emphasis added.) This by itself renders void all of Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-40725983414387277482010-08-07T05:26:08.488-07:002010-08-07T05:26:08.488-07:00(JPH)...
Several of Carrier's uses of Acts fa...(JPH)...<br /><br />Several of Carrier's uses of Acts falls on this same point, and we are surprised Carrier doesn't complain that Acts also doesn't say what Peter ate for lunch and affirm that he didn't ingest any hallucinogenic substances (as if Carrier would find the record any more acceptable had it done so, since he also indicates he rejects Herodotus for reporting outrageousJonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-34256051824973382082010-08-07T05:22:52.396-07:002010-08-07T05:22:52.396-07:00this is what holding says. my cosmos, he's a ...this is what holding says. my cosmos, he's a dolt:<br /><br /> <br />Time for some more details now that I have a break.<br /><br />Originally posted by LoloDoo<br />however, what we have in our earliest conversation accounts (mostly Acts), it seems like people converted rather quickly and easily, and it didn't take a whole lot of evidence like Holding said it did.<br />As noted, this Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-33774730534376052362010-08-06T22:38:48.150-07:002010-08-06T22:38:48.150-07:00I hear they discovered some Atlantian scrolls that...I hear they discovered some Atlantian scrolls that solve all the mysteries of the universe. The scrolls are blank of course, but if you understand that Atlantians had an absolutely high context scientific culture, it is really good evidence.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14479224236264150172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-68043002530039737782010-08-06T16:28:21.061-07:002010-08-06T16:28:21.061-07:00Hi Richard.
With regard to this argument:
[Remem...Hi Richard.<br /><br />With regard to this argument:<br /><br />[Remember, Acts says thousands converted on the very first day just from hearing Peter tell a story none of whose relevant details anyone could verify, nor did anyone even ask to verify them. That's ridiculous. It creates a Catch-22: either it's false (as I'm sure it is) or it entails no one needed reliable evidence to DLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293327854359267727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-42893213488569248722010-08-06T08:50:20.714-07:002010-08-06T08:50:20.714-07:00...remember that educated men are not the issue. P......remember that educated men are not the issue. Paul is well educated, yet we plainly see no evidence he researched anything--he merely believed on a vision, and indeed adamantly refused to even talk to any witnesses for three whole years while preaching the Gospel in Arabia (and he says no one in Judea knew him by face--so he hadn't ever talked to any witnesses <i>before</i>, either).<br />Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.com