tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post1926323281998553878..comments2023-05-10T08:55:47.701-07:00Comments on Richard Carrier Blogs: Sources of the Jesus TraditionRichard Carrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-55500383531002622012011-06-21T05:54:32.725-07:002011-06-21T05:54:32.725-07:00Also, the British Library has an archive of the re...Also, the British Library has an archive of the relevant period.Andrew G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12284971176688746388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-4665188844704740652011-06-21T04:09:11.067-07:002011-06-21T04:09:11.067-07:00There are several archives which may have it; I kn...There are several archives which may have it; I know that both Nottingham University and Nottingham City Library have archives of the Nottingham Review covering 1811, though I do not know how complete they are or if they contain that specific issue. I do not know of any online copy.Andrew G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12284971176688746388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-24596308876357539822011-06-21T00:02:00.499-07:002011-06-21T00:02:00.499-07:00Does anybody know where a copy of the Dec. 20, 181...Does anybody know where a copy of the Dec. 20, 1811 Nottingham Review article can be found?<br /><br />I saw it referenced in many articles on the internet and even a book from 1919 but none of them even quote from the article. My gut tells me that they are all just copying the reference from each other without reading it themselves. I don't doubt that it exists but it would be interesting FT Argle-Barglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117310370225620357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-17610316657716808962011-06-20T19:47:55.078-07:002011-06-20T19:47:55.078-07:00Andrew G. and Liberty Atheist: Thank you! Your ide...<b>Andrew G.</b> and <b>Liberty Atheist</b>: Thank you! Your ideas and sources will definitely be useful.Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-18615191988786142382011-06-20T19:43:43.900-07:002011-06-20T19:43:43.900-07:00Andrew G., I haven't checked your facts, but y...<b>Andrew G.,</b> I haven't checked your facts, but you're right as to the general principle. It has always been obvious that legends take effectively zero time to form: they exist the very instant they are created. As long as no one gainsays it, it becomes fact immediately. Thus the notion that legends take time is in that sense illogical.<br /><br />But what people usually mean to say Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-79346352807957864592011-06-15T05:25:27.224-07:002011-06-15T05:25:27.224-07:00Another source identifies the first account of the...Another source identifies the first account of the historical Ned Ludd as being in the 20 December 1811 issue of The Nottingham Review. This is only 9 months after the first recorded use of the name Ludd by the Luddites (March 1811).<br /><br />In addition to the lack of direct historical evidence for the existence of Ned Ludd, it also appears that there is no record of any existing version of Andrew G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12284971176688746388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-8898798097477294632011-06-15T01:54:02.330-07:002011-06-15T01:54:02.330-07:00There's an excellent example on that page; the...There's an excellent example on that page; the document headed "The Beggar's Complaint", which appears to be dated 1813, repeats the tale of a <i>historical</i> Ned Ludd (as having happened "a good many years ago"). It then recounts the use of the name by both an organized group ("These men, collectively, were therefore called Luddites") and also by Andrew G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12284971176688746388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-9374144137179902192011-06-14T23:15:13.339-07:002011-06-14T23:15:13.339-07:00I know understand why you brought up Ned Ludd. I s...I know understand why you brought up Ned Ludd. I still stand by my assertion that the Luddites viewed Ludd as a symbol not a real person. I put a link below that has a bunch of transcriptions of documents by the Luddites, the government, and those that opposed them <br /><br />https://eee.uci.edu/clients/bjbecker/SpinningWeb/week8d.html<br /><br /><br />Writings of the Luddites By Kevin Binfield,FT Argle-Barglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117310370225620357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-77474446966096519512011-06-13T09:32:49.787-07:002011-06-13T09:32:49.787-07:00Andrew G. is right. Indeed, Droge documented that ...<b>Andrew G.</b> is right. Indeed, Droge documented that that development had occurred within 40 years. Note that I am not aware of any actual <i>evidence</i> that Ludd was invented or used in the way <b>Liberty Atheist</b> <a href="http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/05/sources-of-jesus-tradition.html?showComment=1307835675051#c7097961561003286101" rel="nofollow">said</a>. As far as I know, Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-12849982520022145562011-06-13T01:06:57.942-07:002011-06-13T01:06:57.942-07:00Isn't that exactly the point? Ned Ludd is wide...Isn't that exactly the point? Ned Ludd is widely believed (or at least assumed) <i>now</i> to have been a real person; at some time between then and now, the symbolic leader has become reified into a real historical figure.<br /><br />(For example, someone (not me, honest) just removed without explanation the caveat "Although no actual proof of his existence has been found" from theAndrew G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12284971176688746388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-70979615610032861012011-06-11T16:41:15.051-07:002011-06-11T16:41:15.051-07:00I have a question about the Ned Ludd paper/argumen...I have a question about the Ned Ludd paper/argument that wasn't in the book. How exactly would the figure of Ned Ludd relate to whether or not Jesus existed as an actual person? <br /><br />It has always been my understanding that Ned Ludd was a fictional mascot used by the Luddites because they were advocating illegal acts and didn't want to make their names public. The Luddites never FT Argle-Barglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117310370225620357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-65736972902987814052011-06-08T11:20:14.958-07:002011-06-08T11:20:14.958-07:00So if the worst the Christians can bitch about is ...<i>So if the worst the Christians can bitch about is that they don't like my terminology (and it will only be Christians--secular historians won't give a shit), that would betray the bankruptcy of their opposition--since it would mean they have no objection to anything I am actually saying, just to the words I chose to say it with, which will make them look pathetic (and make me look Blue Devil Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045468316613818510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-76144398063049400942011-06-06T16:34:26.211-07:002011-06-06T16:34:26.211-07:00Blue Devil Knight said… Yes, you are right a likel...<b>Blue Devil Knight said…</b> <i>Yes, you are right a likelihood is a probability, but so is the 'consequent' or whatever.</i><br /><br />Consequent probability. It is therefore a direct parallel to prior probability, so when you talk about priors and consequents, everyone will know which probability is which (and not confuse those terms with ordinary words that just mean "Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-76304330259918046462011-06-06T16:31:38.902-07:002011-06-06T16:31:38.902-07:00Landon Hedrick said... I've already seen a hig...<b>Landon Hedrick said...</b> <i>I've already seen a highly negative review of Price's paper in it.</i><br /><br />By an actual expert, or just an amateur blogger?<br /><br />If the former, please post the citation, as I'd love to read it. The latter I have no interest in.<br /><br /><b>kilo papa said…</b> <i>James Tabor's and A.J. Droge's left out chapters sound very Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-17154447082278848382011-06-04T12:24:19.003-07:002011-06-04T12:24:19.003-07:00I realize I was a bit harsh in my previous comment...I realize I was a bit harsh in my previous comment. My worry is that there will be good ideas lost in idiosyncratic distractions. To create a new vocabulary, when there is a standard in place, is to immediately lose a good proportion of the audience that knows the stuff really well. That's all I'm saying.Blue Devil Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045468316613818510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-41374240549607813502011-06-04T07:54:10.532-07:002011-06-04T07:54:10.532-07:00Surefire way to come off as a dilettante is to use...Surefire way to come off as a dilettante is to use a bunch of cheesy neologisms for things that already have a vocabulary. Maximum likelihood is a well entrenched test, using term most scientists are comfortable with. Yes, you are right a likelihood is a probability, but so is the 'consequent' or whatever. People are smart enough to understand the terminology. I know you got confused withBlue Devil Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045468316613818510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-43710111228997172482011-06-03T23:52:24.578-07:002011-06-03T23:52:24.578-07:00James Tabor's and A.J. Droge's left out ch...James Tabor's and A.J. Droge's left out chapters sound very interesting. Are they available anywhere else?kilo papahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15112057471953902453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-74196938710047950342011-06-02T13:06:38.191-07:002011-06-02T13:06:38.191-07:00Say what you will about the book, but you must adm...Say what you will about the book, but you must admit that the cover is excellent. I like covers like that (and like Erhman's new book <i>Forged</i>).<br /><br />It will be interesting to see what other scholars think about the papers in this book. I've already seen a highly negative review of Price's paper in it.Landon Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12478038936820787129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-65903055957743686632011-06-02T11:37:22.156-07:002011-06-02T11:37:22.156-07:00On Kindle it's certainly worth it, because tha...On Kindle it's certainly worth it, because that's a much more fitting price for its content, and it won't take up any space in your library and you can just read the bits you like, even bookmark and annotate them.Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-1786341363037781212011-06-02T06:21:38.533-07:002011-06-02T06:21:38.533-07:00I too had been waiting for this book. But Hoffman&...I too had been waiting for this book. But Hoffman's bizarre behavior on other subjects preceding it's release put me off. But, your review does point out a few articles that are worthwhile. The Kindle version of the book is retailing 9.99, so I think I will spring for it, grimacing a bit, but knowing I'm getting a few worthy opinions.Vichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10780628358292616861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-64919700699585289772011-06-01T19:06:20.077-07:002011-06-01T19:06:20.077-07:00The Uncredible Hallq said... Props for using a pic...<b>The Uncredible Hallq said...</b> <i>Props for using a picture from Buffy to illustrate this post.</i><br /><br />And props for noticing.Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-40108786338861700412011-06-01T03:21:32.801-07:002011-06-01T03:21:32.801-07:00Hi Richard
I was sooo looking forward to this book...Hi Richard<br />I was sooo looking forward to this book. But apart from a few gems (I pretty much agree with you on which ones) it was a real turtle thump. <br />BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-91256250306302042452011-05-31T23:14:03.071-07:002011-05-31T23:14:03.071-07:00Props for using a picture from Buffy to illustrate...Props for using a picture from Buffy to illustrate this post.<br /><br />That is all.The Uncredible Hallqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09565179884099473943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-19279742605636741522011-05-31T19:39:29.968-07:002011-05-31T19:39:29.968-07:00http://shoutybear.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/hoff...http://shoutybear.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/hoff.gifBenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14479224236264150172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-36355981584466963272011-05-31T13:28:39.299-07:002011-05-31T13:28:39.299-07:00...contrary to Hoffmann, I am not in CFI's emp......contrary to Hoffmann, I am <i>not</i> in CFI's employ "as an advocate" and never have been. Indeed, the only paid work I've ever done for them is <a href="http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/02/march-course.html" rel="nofollow">co-teach an online course in naturalism</a>. Though I am certainly a personal supporter of CFI (I'm a paying member), I have also been a vocalRichard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.com