tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post212163614032495333..comments2023-05-10T08:55:47.701-07:00Comments on Richard Carrier Blogs: Factual Politics (4)Richard Carrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-74786566571612548322011-11-30T11:40:18.751-08:002011-11-30T11:40:18.751-08:00Note to all: I am soon retiring my blogger account...<b>Note to all: I am soon retiring my blogger account and thus locking all posts, so no further comments can be made. I will announce my new blog location later this week. Anyone who wants to continue discussions unfinished here will have the opportunity to initiate them anew after my inaugural post. But you will have to wait out the delay as I close out this account and get the other up and Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-56344809764290224152011-11-30T11:39:42.404-08:002011-11-30T11:39:42.404-08:00There’s No Escaping It...
Jan said... But corpora...<b>There’s No Escaping It...</b><br /><br /><b>Jan said...</b> <i>But corporations come together on an voluntary basis. You do not have to be part of it. </i><br /><br />You don't have to be a part of a government either. You can be an outlaw. You can go live in the wilderness somewhere. You can go live on a boat in international waters. But you need clean water, food, roads, protection from Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-90969984251433972212011-11-30T11:37:35.513-08:002011-11-30T11:37:35.513-08:00...and What It Means.
Jan said... So sure we need...<b>...and What It Means.</b><br /><br /><b>Jan said...</b> <i>So sure we need some sort of protection against hostile individuals, but isn't the police more or less a bunch of people with guns that keep an eye open and come to help you if you call them? Seems like a fairly easy services to be provided by private protection agencies.</i><br /><br />Except that it is a lot harder to police a Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-48932092329960281032011-11-30T11:32:53.021-08:002011-11-30T11:32:53.021-08:00The Main Issue...
Jan said... "Your life, li...<b>The Main Issue...</b><br /><br /><b>Jan said...</b> <i>"Your life, liberty, and property only survive when there is a social system in place to sustain and protect them." I agree, but this only explains that it is neccessary to associate with other people in order to survive. But that doesn't mean you automatically should be part of a specific group, e.g. all people within the Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-65600960157824678322011-10-26T04:37:29.902-07:002011-10-26T04:37:29.902-07:00Hi Mr. Carrier,
I had some thoughts about what yo...Hi Mr. Carrier,<br /><br />I had some thoughts about what you wrote. <br /><br />1. <br />You said this about the social contract:<br />"It's scientific fact,<...><br />Your life, liberty, and property only survive when there is a social system in place to sustain and protect them."<br /><br />I agree, but this only explains that it is neccessary to associate with other peopleJanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06086887946309198382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-56305706329553990802011-09-17T15:15:04.507-07:002011-09-17T15:15:04.507-07:00Finally, the "car buying" analogy is com...Finally, the "car buying" analogy is completely retarded. Because a government wouldn't just "suddenly" buy a community car. Somewhere down the line we must have asked it to. So let's fill out a <i>real</i> case:<br /><br />We have a problem with wildfires in our area. They can kill hundreds and destroy thousands of homes. We all recognize we're all in the same Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-73832690498159067592011-09-17T14:57:03.475-07:002011-09-17T14:57:03.475-07:00Notice how the fallacy keeps going...
The governm...Notice how the fallacy keeps going...<br /><br /><b>The government proposes itself as the highest and sole agency of justice in the land. The government claims that its justification is the social contract.</b><br /><br />Who in "the government" says these things? The government is just a bunch of people we chose to run things for us. So the government doesn't say these things. <i>Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-44905204834579911382011-09-17T14:42:33.563-07:002011-09-17T14:42:33.563-07:00That same fallacy then cascades to destroy the log...That same fallacy then cascades to destroy the logic of every following argument. For example:<br /><br /><b>"...this constitutes a form of voluntary contract between a citizen and his or her government."</b><br /><br />Not "his or her government." His or her <i>neighbors</i>. That is, it constitutes a voluntary contract to pay for the benefits you take from your neighbors (inRichard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-83494183293412673452011-09-17T14:27:46.320-07:002011-09-17T14:27:46.320-07:00It's bogus right from the word go.
"The...It's bogus right from the word go. <br /><br /><b>"The social contract is the idea that citizens who live in the country must obey their government."</b> <br /><br />That's not at all correct. The social contract is the idea that we have to negotiate a way to get along and that one of the ways to do this is to join by our actions a tacit (and in the case of "government,&Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-33245123568563733142011-08-30T00:17:27.628-07:002011-08-30T00:17:27.628-07:00......So, for example, let's have a look at th.........<i>So, for example, let's have a look at the social contract car dealership. So I send a letter to every household in a 10-block radius telling the occupants that I have bought a car on their behalf, that they can choose a Volvo or BMW if they want. If they don't choose, I'm just going to send whatever the majority chooses. The car is delivered to them. Next week, the car cannotmojo.rhythmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14901306439675127615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-90201192759037944942011-08-30T00:16:00.284-07:002011-08-30T00:16:00.284-07:00Here's a transcript of Stefbot said:
The soci...Here's a transcript of Stefbot said:<br /><br /><i>The social contract is the idea that citizens who live in the country must obey their government. And if you remain in that country, the "love it or leave it" situation, you remain in that country and you have the right to vote ideally, this constitutes a form of voluntary contract between a citizen and his or her government.<br /><mojo.rhythmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14901306439675127615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-35790164142923582982011-08-29T23:44:53.565-07:002011-08-29T23:44:53.565-07:00Richard,
I wanted to get your take on this video ...Richard,<br /><br />I wanted to get your take on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNj0VhK19QU" rel="nofollow">this</a> video (don't worry--it's less than 5 minutes). This guy Stefbot, a fanatic anarcho-capitalist with an almost cult-like following, claims to define and destroy the social contract in under 5 minutes.<br /><br />Superficially, I don't find his argument very mojo.rhythmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14901306439675127615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-21080932933328869422011-02-17T20:02:18.091-08:002011-02-17T20:02:18.091-08:00Dr. Carrier,
There is SO much information in these...Dr. Carrier,<br />There is SO much information in these posts that I will have to re-read it and digest it. But, one thing for sure, I will buy your book.<br />Thank you for being so vastly informed and informing the "publically ill-informed", like myself!Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-86254558677990551272011-01-22T18:16:20.293-08:002011-01-22T18:16:20.293-08:00Health Care Costs
Pharmer Joshua said...This will...<b>Health Care Costs</b><br /><br /><b>Pharmer Joshua said...</b><i>This will obviously increase costs overall, as government-restricted competition typically does.</i><br /><br />History does not in fact support that generalization. See the bibliographies I provide in <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1420802933?ie=UTF8&tag=richardcarrier-20" rel="nofollow">Sense and Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-62927826006213212142011-01-22T18:12:02.189-08:002011-01-22T18:12:02.189-08:00Commerce Clause
Pharmer Joshua said... immediatel...<b>Commerce Clause</b><br /><br /><b>Pharmer Joshua said...</b> <i>immediately incorrect is your expanded interpretation of the "general welfare" and "interstate commerce" clauses of the US Constitution. This is why the Affordable Care Act will fall apart. There is no justification or power to regulate economic INactivity.</i><br /><br />First, the commerce clause provides allRichard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-91539541838516816642011-01-22T18:09:58.570-08:002011-01-22T18:09:58.570-08:00Commerce Clause
Pharmer Joshua said... immediatel...<b>Commerce Clause</b><br /><br /><b>Pharmer Joshua said...</b> <i>immediately incorrect is your expanded interpretation of the "general welfare" and "interstate commerce" clauses of the US Constitution. This is why the Affordable Care Act will fall apart. There is no justification or power to regulate economic INactivity.</i><br /><br />I already addressed these issues in <a Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-79573357593108034472011-01-22T18:00:06.333-08:002011-01-22T18:00:06.333-08:00Replacing Public Roads with Private?
Pharmer Josh...<b>Replacing Public Roads with Private?</b><br /><br /><b>Pharmer Joshua said...</b> <i>Private roads, specifically St. Louis [etc.]</i><br /><br />Those are just the same homeowner's roads I already discussed. They are not public roads, municipal roads, or highways. No one can use them but their owners and their approved guests (which makes them useless for intercommunity traffic). And the Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-46407336227406718142011-01-22T17:59:19.904-08:002011-01-22T17:59:19.904-08:00JCM: I love your quote and comments! I quite agree...<b>JCM:</b> I love your quote and comments! I quite agree.Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-48326353617769198702011-01-22T17:59:10.494-08:002011-01-22T17:59:10.494-08:00Mickey said... Why speak like this? It's shame...<b>Mickey said... </b><i>Why speak like this? It's shameful.</i><br /><br />No it isn't. It's <a href="http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/01/factual-politics-3.html?showComment=1295738085629#c416466207688391128" rel="nofollow">purposeful</a>.Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-18484143096141960932011-01-16T02:20:10.307-08:002011-01-16T02:20:10.307-08:00Carrier says,
"If you'd ever actually be...Carrier says,<br /><br />"If you'd ever actually been raped or robbed by thugs you'd know this. But I suspect you are just a freeloading pussy who has never had a hard day in his life and takes all the goods you enjoy for granted...."<br /><br />Why speak like this? It's shameful.Mickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05912821497230325956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-10178772055551660702011-01-10T22:45:48.959-08:002011-01-10T22:45:48.959-08:00Private roads, specifically St. Louis: http://en.w...Private roads, specifically St. Louis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_road. <br />Hong Kong likely has the best example of private roads. They have surpassed the US in many ways, and this is only one of them. <br /><br />I'll have to continue later with most of your responses, but the one that comes across as immediately incorrect is your expanded interpretation of the "general Pharmer Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157388513305839405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-37304846770534561372011-01-08T22:58:55.083-08:002011-01-08T22:58:55.083-08:00I'm reminded of something that George Monbiot ...I'm reminded of something that <a href="http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/08/22/identity-politics-in-climate-change-hell/" rel="nofollow">George Monbiot</a> wrote a couple of years back:<br /><br /><i>...the outcome of both market fundamentalism and anarchism, if applied universally, is identical. The anarchists associate with the oppressed, the market fundamentalists with the oppressors. mufihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01818949854678769391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-31134697319448457622011-01-08T20:51:02.730-08:002011-01-08T20:51:02.730-08:00I'd like to say 'thank you' for taking...I'd like to say 'thank you' for taking the time to explain so much in as concise a manner as possible. I think this 3-part blog post is a valuable resource.<br /><br />While reading these posts - where liberty and well-being are discussed - I was reminded exactly why secular states are better than religious ones: religious beliefs are not the government's business: beliefs should Pikemann Urgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02587558012877707537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-80245470864270294422011-01-06T02:17:50.986-08:002011-01-06T02:17:50.986-08:00we're not interested in your BS, carrier....
...we're not interested in your BS, carrier....<br /><br />you've already said enough to forfeit your life....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36959219.post-56080680158742796032011-01-05T19:32:30.519-08:002011-01-05T19:32:30.519-08:00Pharmer Joshua said... The US Constitution allows ...<b>Pharmer Joshua said...</b> <i>The US Constitution allows for the power of taxation simply to exercise the very limited powers listed in the Constitution.</i><br /><br />I agree. Are you assuming I didn't? <br /><br />I suspect you are assuming the powers granted by the Constitution are more limited than in fact they are. I already discuss this in my treatment of <a href="http://Richard Carrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577206926510030146noreply@blogger.com